I realized last summer, reading two of Plutarch's Lives, that the parallels with our current politics run deep. The violence isn't there (yet), but the demagoguery and rule by faction and raw power are very similar.
Antifa, BLM, the defund the police movement, the prosecution of any citizen that defends himself or others, the rampant anti-semitism on college campuses, the anarchy in Baltimore, Philly, Chicago, San Francisco and other blue cities, the arrest of citizens that don't bow to the regime, the mass-shooters that pop up during peak narrative (and are always on the FBI's radar)...the table has been set.
Trump has a few things in common with Caesar, but probably more so with the Gracchi many decades earlier, whose persecution was a major milestone along the road to ruin for the Republic. And there are echoes of Marius and Sulla too. History doesn’t repeat but it surely does rhyme.
We are living in historic times. The events of this year will be in the history books ten thousand years from now, especially if (as I expect) there is a financial collapse of our debt-burdened country and we devolve into anarchy and a new Revolution.
as I point out in my PS, I am not saying Trump is Caesar. Rather, I’m cautioning where this leads. Trump is much closer to the Gracchi, as you point out.
Yes Trump as Tiberius Gracchus is more accurate. The first domino in a series that runs through Gaius Gracchus, Marius, Sulla and the various triumvirs. It took a century for Rome to go from Tiberius to Augustus but things move much more quickly these days.
Also Rome was fortunate in that it didn't have mortal enemies willing and capable of capitalising while it tore itself apart. Not so the US.
Rome had defeated their final existential enemy and was fully dominant in their world. They still had enemies, with dreams of glory, but none could actually bring down Rome. Which is the beginning of what led to the Late Republic because the Roman Establishment now really only had each other to contend with. This is somewhat analogous to the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union. With caveats, obviously.
Unless the West somehow returns to positive fertility and honest government, and disenfranchises the female vote that has, because empathy and "Oh that poor...."illegal alien, incarcerated thug, gangbanger who didn't have a father, poor teacher doing her best... created every single social pathology wrecking Western Civ right now, no one ten thousand years from now will have heard of us.
I disagree. If we all vanished from the earth at midnight, the USA would still be the most important nation that ever existed. Our numbers, wealth, inventiveness, hegemonic military power, and worldwide influence dwarf Rome at the height of its ascendancy.
I'm with you on that. Let us suppose that Rome had collapsed, fragmented and ceased to exist as a coherent Empire during the Late Republic era. And that was certainly possible. We would still know of Rome and the importance of Rome. And, we still know 2500 years later of Sparta and Athens and the other Greek City States.
Rome lasted far longer than the US has, so far. Rome was a much larger empire once you realize very few civilizations existed outside of it - China. That’s about it. And China never was important outside its borders, nor desired to be. It’s also been < 2 millennia since Rome fell. You’re talking about 10 millennia, and other, more-aggressive and fertile civilizations competing with us. If we fall now - either via civil war with the commies or western women continuing to reject their responsibility to the civilization and the species, no one will have heard of us in your timeframe. Remember - the victors write the history books. Once we fall, that won’t be us.
I suspect that 2 millennia from now they will be talking about the Anglo Empire, stretching from 1066 to whenever America and the rest collapse and fall. We may well be viewed as the last remnants of the Great English Speaking Empire …. Similar to the Eastern Empire/Byzantine Empire.
"The events of this year will be in the history books ten thousand years from now"
10,000 is a strong claim. We still read about Caesar, certainly, but Rome took 1000 years from then to truly be gone, and the last king using his name as a title was only removed from power just over 100 years ago (the last Czar of Russia).
The British Empire is more worthy, in most ways, of historical consideration, in that the world was de facto fully explored and in significant ways fully "civilized" ("standardized" might be a better term) during that time (the modern concept of "country" and "country borders" was accepted by/imposed upon essentially the whole world, for only the most obvious thing among many).
At the moment, the US looks so very important, but if the modern "West" fell apart in the next decade or two, the US will look a whole lot like Germany does now - wow, it was so important for a minute there... now it's, well, not. What did they actually do?
The things that stand out as "what we did" will depend on where we end up after. It's very hard to predict, but for most countries, even most "major powers", once they are gone, few people care for more than a few generations.
When we look at this from 2000 years in the future, I think it gets much more obvious that the American Revolution is really an internal conflict in the Anglo Empire
True. This merely makes the probability of a Caesar rising nearly 100%.
Agreed.
I realized last summer, reading two of Plutarch's Lives, that the parallels with our current politics run deep. The violence isn't there (yet), but the demagoguery and rule by faction and raw power are very similar.
oh, I need to read those again.
Antifa, BLM, the defund the police movement, the prosecution of any citizen that defends himself or others, the rampant anti-semitism on college campuses, the anarchy in Baltimore, Philly, Chicago, San Francisco and other blue cities, the arrest of citizens that don't bow to the regime, the mass-shooters that pop up during peak narrative (and are always on the FBI's radar)...the table has been set.
Trump has a few things in common with Caesar, but probably more so with the Gracchi many decades earlier, whose persecution was a major milestone along the road to ruin for the Republic. And there are echoes of Marius and Sulla too. History doesn’t repeat but it surely does rhyme.
We are living in historic times. The events of this year will be in the history books ten thousand years from now, especially if (as I expect) there is a financial collapse of our debt-burdened country and we devolve into anarchy and a new Revolution.
as I point out in my PS, I am not saying Trump is Caesar. Rather, I’m cautioning where this leads. Trump is much closer to the Gracchi, as you point out.
Yes Trump as Tiberius Gracchus is more accurate. The first domino in a series that runs through Gaius Gracchus, Marius, Sulla and the various triumvirs. It took a century for Rome to go from Tiberius to Augustus but things move much more quickly these days.
Also Rome was fortunate in that it didn't have mortal enemies willing and capable of capitalising while it tore itself apart. Not so the US.
BTW Tiberius was assassinated.
Rome had defeated their final existential enemy and was fully dominant in their world. They still had enemies, with dreams of glory, but none could actually bring down Rome. Which is the beginning of what led to the Late Republic because the Roman Establishment now really only had each other to contend with. This is somewhat analogous to the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union. With caveats, obviously.
Unless the West somehow returns to positive fertility and honest government, and disenfranchises the female vote that has, because empathy and "Oh that poor...."illegal alien, incarcerated thug, gangbanger who didn't have a father, poor teacher doing her best... created every single social pathology wrecking Western Civ right now, no one ten thousand years from now will have heard of us.
I disagree. If we all vanished from the earth at midnight, the USA would still be the most important nation that ever existed. Our numbers, wealth, inventiveness, hegemonic military power, and worldwide influence dwarf Rome at the height of its ascendancy.
I'm with you on that. Let us suppose that Rome had collapsed, fragmented and ceased to exist as a coherent Empire during the Late Republic era. And that was certainly possible. We would still know of Rome and the importance of Rome. And, we still know 2500 years later of Sparta and Athens and the other Greek City States.
Rome lasted far longer than the US has, so far. Rome was a much larger empire once you realize very few civilizations existed outside of it - China. That’s about it. And China never was important outside its borders, nor desired to be. It’s also been < 2 millennia since Rome fell. You’re talking about 10 millennia, and other, more-aggressive and fertile civilizations competing with us. If we fall now - either via civil war with the commies or western women continuing to reject their responsibility to the civilization and the species, no one will have heard of us in your timeframe. Remember - the victors write the history books. Once we fall, that won’t be us.
I suspect that 2 millennia from now they will be talking about the Anglo Empire, stretching from 1066 to whenever America and the rest collapse and fall. We may well be viewed as the last remnants of the Great English Speaking Empire …. Similar to the Eastern Empire/Byzantine Empire.
"The events of this year will be in the history books ten thousand years from now"
10,000 is a strong claim. We still read about Caesar, certainly, but Rome took 1000 years from then to truly be gone, and the last king using his name as a title was only removed from power just over 100 years ago (the last Czar of Russia).
The British Empire is more worthy, in most ways, of historical consideration, in that the world was de facto fully explored and in significant ways fully "civilized" ("standardized" might be a better term) during that time (the modern concept of "country" and "country borders" was accepted by/imposed upon essentially the whole world, for only the most obvious thing among many).
At the moment, the US looks so very important, but if the modern "West" fell apart in the next decade or two, the US will look a whole lot like Germany does now - wow, it was so important for a minute there... now it's, well, not. What did they actually do?
The things that stand out as "what we did" will depend on where we end up after. It's very hard to predict, but for most countries, even most "major powers", once they are gone, few people care for more than a few generations.
To a certain extent, the US is a continuation of the British Empire.
When we look at this from 2000 years in the future, I think it gets much more obvious that the American Revolution is really an internal conflict in the Anglo Empire
This is so interesting. Thank you!
Glad you liked it